Welcome to Travel Insurance Tuesday on Safe Travels! I’m your host, Damian Tysdal.

Today we’re talking about coronavirus pandemic coverage with travel insurance, and how to find the policies with the best coverage for it.

There are many travel insurance companies offering many policies, so finding which plans have which coverage is very confusing.

But, with a comparison tool, you can easily find the best plans for your trip.

Selected Links from the Episode

• InsureMyTrip
• TravelInsurance.com
• Squaremouth.com

Show Notes & Timestamps

• Why using a comparison engine is the smart way to compare 00:01:08
• How InsureMyTrip’s comparison site helps you 00:02:41
• Why TravelInsurance.com is not helping much 00:03:54
• My recommendation: Squaremouth.com 00:04:10
• About Cancel For Any Reason (CFAR) coverage 00:06:23
• Summary 00:07:40

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Today I’m speaking with K Campbell (goes by KC) who is a military intelligence veteran and currently a senior security and intelligence consultant at a company calledBlue Glacier Security & Intelligence.

He has experience and training in intelligence; risk, threat, and vulnerability assessments; executive protection; counterterrorism, and business continuity.

Even though a background like that seems like it’s overdoing it for leisure travel, KC brings some useful perspective to what’s happening right now with coronavirus, and travel safety going into the future.

He has specific tips about government warnings and how the different risk levels work, and registering your travels to stay safe.

Selected Links from the Episode

• KC on Twitter
• KC on LinkedIn
• Blue Glacier Security and Intelligence
• US State Dept STEP program
• Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Map
• British Foreign & Commonwealth office (FCO)

Show Notes & Timestamps

• KC’s background in military intelligence 00:02:03
• Recommendations for post-coronavirus travel 00:03:18
• The info source many security pro’s don’t even use 00:05:39
• Breakdown of various government warnings 00:06:46
• General tips for assessing risk for your vacation 00:11:48
• Common mistakes and how to avoid them 00:14:39

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This show is not just for rewards points gurus…but for new people too.

Rewards points programs can be confusing to figure out (which is why I just have a United CC, good enough for me).

But, many travelers are pros at earning, saving, and spending points with their favorite travel suppliers. They get to take free trips, upgrade to 1st class, and get hotel suites “on the house”.

However, with the coronavirus shutdown…most people are not traveling. They’re not booking travel either, so that means nobody is using their points.

And that brings up the dreaded thought of expiring points.

Will you lose your balance while waiting for things to get back to normal?

Today we’re joined by Jamie Larounis from UpgradedPoints.com.

Jamie will provide tips to put you at ease as far as expiring points, plus provide some general tips for those new to rewards programs.

This show is short, to the point, and full of good tips…enjoy.

Selected Links from the Episode

• Jamie Larounis on Twitter
• The Forward Cabin (Jamie’s blog)
• UpgradedPoints.com

Show Notes & Timestamps

• Are points expiring during the shut down? 00:02:19
• Which rewards programs are better than others? 00:03:16
• General tips for people new to rewards programs 00:07:34
• Common mistakes with rewards programs 00:10:19
• Frequent misconceptions about points programs 00:11:42

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Hello, it’s me Damian…Safe Travels host!

My main business is travel insurance, I started Travel Insurance Review in 2006 as a free resource for travelers to learn about insurance.

Today I talk about how travel insurance can cover coronavirus, and specifically how Cancel For Any Reason coverage has become vital.

Selected Links from the Episode

• Cancel For Any Reason travel insurance
• Comparison Engine

Show Notes & Timestamps

• Overview of travel insurance 00:01:00
• How travel insurance covered coronavirus at first 00:02:26
• So where do we stand now with travel insurance and coronavirus? 00:04:30
• What is the best option for insuring future trips? 00:06:35
• Summary 00:11:09

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Today I’m speaking with Brian Altomare from Lugless.com.

Even though most travel is still shut down, some parts of the country are starting to move around again.

I was curious about getting some advice for those who were still concerned about coronavirus, but who needed to fly whether for work or other necessary reason.

What could they do to minimize exposure and get through the flying process with as little concern as possible?

Today’s show is a little different, because there is definitely a product pitch…but it’s a service that can help minimize your time in the airport and make your trip more worry-free.

I’m speaking with Brian Altomare who founded a luggage shipping service called LugLess.

Brian pitched this on Shark Tank years ago, and even though that didn’t go the way he wanted…he still grew the company and thrived…and it was later acquired.

Brian will talk about how this service minimizes your airport time and therefore your exposure to coronavirus.

He’ll talk about his Shark Tank experience.

Then in a departure from the norm for Safe Travels, he offers some entrepreneurial advice for those who might have an idea they want to run with.

Selected Links from the Episode

• Brian Altomare LinkedIn
• LugLess

Show Notes & Timestamps

• Lessons learned from the Shark Tank pitch 00:03:11
• How LugLess helps reduce exposure at the airport 00:04:19
• Who benefits most from LugLess? 00:10:14
• Key success tips for entrepreneurs starting out 00:13:43
• Avoiding startup mistakes 00:15:22
• Work/life balance 00:16:35
• The magic of making your bed…every day 00:18:3

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In this episode we are talking about RV travel for the summer of 2020, and how to handle coronavirus concerns.

I’m joined by Jeff Crider, who is a publisher and author for several RV and campground-related publications, and has been in the business for decades.

Jeff is especially tuned into campgrounds and their specific procedures for handling coronavirus concerns this summer. He will share some of the actions campgrounds are taking, tips for smooth travels this summer, and some common mistakes that new RVers make and how you can avoid them.

Selected Links from the Episode

• Recreation.gov
• Reserve America
• GoCampingAmerica.com
• GoRving.com
• CampColorado.com
• J & H RV Park Flagstaff
• RV Business
• Woodalls Campground Management
• Motorhome Magazine
• Contact Jeff: campinginfosource@gmail.com

Show Notes & Timestamps

• Current status of campgrounds with covid-19 00:03:53
• On the need for extra homework in researching trips this year 00:04:47
• Resources for campground status 00:06:12
• Why tent campers might have a harder time 00:09:14
• RV travel as a safe “social distancing” form of travel 00:13:05
• General tips for new RVers 00:21:18
• Tips on backing and asking for help 00:23:34
• Common mistakes and how to avoid them 00:25:16
• On renting vs buying 00:31:14

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In this episode I speak with Leslie Stroud of 7Wayfinders.com.

She and her family (5 kids!) were traveling the world full-time when coronavirus came along and brought their plans to a halt….in New Zealand.

Leslie talks about the very strict and thorough safety lockdown in New Zealand, handling this with kids, and plans to get out when things open up again.

She also shares family travel tips, advice for road-schooling, and more.

Selected Links from the Episode

• 7Wayfinders.com
• Leslie and her family on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook

Show Notes & Timestamps

• On the overwhelming decision to travel full time as a family 00:06:41
• Coronavirus lockdown in New Zealand 00:10:10
• The thorough safety measure in NZ 00:11:48
• Tips for full-time travel with a family 00:18:57
• Mistakes to avoid when traveling with kids 00:22:25
• Misconceptions of traveling with kids 00:24:43
• Advice for “Road-schooling” 00:27:18

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In this episode I speak with full-time RVers Marc and Julie Bennett about the challenges, and benefits, of RV travel during coronavirus.

The Bennett’s are not only full-time RVers, but make a living running RVLove.com where they produce a wealth of content.

They are also the authors of “Living the RV Life: Your Ultimate Guide to Life on the Road”.

Much of the country is still in some phase of lockdown, but many travelers are starting to think about summer travel.

But, cruises and maybe even air travel are out of the question, so many travelers are thinking of alternatives…including RV travel.

In this show we talk about the ways RV travel is perfect for social distancing, tips to get started, RV selection advice, and common mistakes new RVers make and how to avoid them.

Selected Links from the Episode

• RVLove.com
• RVLove on Twitter
• Living the RV Life: Your Ultimate Guide to Life on the Road book on Amazon
• Garden of the Gods RV Resort in Colorado Springs

Show Notes & Timestamps

• From “off the grid” to pandemic lockdown 00:02:39
• RV travel as a safe alternative during coronavirus 00:07:42
• How campgrounds have change procedures 00:09:11
• General advice for newer RVers 00:16:15
• On which brands might be better 00:17:45
• Common mistakes to avoid when starting out 00:21:33
• Typical misconceptions about RV travel 00:23:57

Listen

Transcript

Damian: Thank you very much for joining us today.

The Bennetts: Well, thanks for having us. Yeah, it’s great to be here.

Damian: Would you mind just giving a little overview of what it is that you do, who you are, where you are, and your area of expertise.

The Bennetts: Sure. Well, we’re Julie and Mark Bennett and we’re full time RVers and have been on the road now living, working and traveling from our motorhome. Almost six years. So we hit the road in 2014 and in that time we’ve traveled to all 50 USA States, Canada, Mexico, all while working full time. And in that time, we’ve been sharing along the way in our journey at our website, RV love.com we create YouTube videos at our YouTube channel, and share on social media.

And we also have a book that we published with Simon & Schuster “Living The RV Life”, your ultimate guide to life on the road and running an online school. So we keep pretty busy creating lots of volume information and resources that we should have been in there when we got started on the road.

Damian: Yes. From looking at your website, a lot of great information. It was really fun to look at and I can tell how much work you’ve been putting into all of that, and you’re on the road now, I assume, right?

The Bennetts: We are. We’re actually in our original home state of Colorado. We’re at a campground called garden of the gods RV resort in Colorado Springs. It’s a little South of the main Denver Metro area, and we specifically chose this area because it’s a really, we stayed here a few times and it’s a really nice area that we knew would be comfortable staying this time of year for extended periods during this covid pandemic.

Damian: So when the pandemic started, were you not there? Did you head there specifically?

The Bennetts: when this all first started, it’s actually pretty funny. When this first started, we were out in the middle of the Arizona desert, Southwestern Arizona near a town called courtside, and we were actually camping off grid using our onboard water tanks and solar power and just out in the middle of the desert.

And had we not been watching the news, we wouldn’t even have known anything was going on because we were just out in the middle of nowhere. And of course we couldn’t avoid the news. And so we, they said shelter in place, so we just stayed there for a few more weeks. just replenishing water every couple of weeks.

But then as the temperature started to rise and as the situation looked like it was going to continue to extend for a couple more months, we decided this is not gonna work cause out in the middle of the desert the temperatures were going to be quickly getting up over a hundred degrees. And that’s not very comfortable in an RV, especially without electric hookups to run air conditioners.

So we decided to hightail it to Colorado. And that was actually a big decision for us because we didn’t want to set a bad example of traveling during the stay at home and stay in place orders. But you know, we were in a situation where we kind of needed to make a move. And so we did. We made it, there was not a tourist trip though.

It was a very focused two days. We, you know, 950 miles in two days. We drove up here to be able to get planted and know we were going to stay here for a solid two months once we arrived.

Damian: That’s interesting because you say a stay at home order. Technically you were staying at home, you were just moving your home.

The Bennetts: exactly. That’s one of the unique things about an RV is that you’re always home wherever you go, especially as a full timer. 

Damian: And you’ve been doing this six years, which is quite a while. That’s quite an undertaking. How did this all start for you? Is there a story there?

The Bennetts: Yeah. When we first started this, one of our primary motivators was just to be able to see more and experience more with the limited time off you have from work. I had traveled a fair bit with work over the years, but it’s just business travel where you fly in, you stay in a hotel, you do business meetings, you fly home, you don’t really see a lot.

And my wife, when you hear her talk, you might pick up, she’s Australian. And when we, when we went back to Australia to visit a lot of her family, I noticed a lot of her family and friends had actually seen more of the United States than I had. And I thought, well, that’s not right. And so we started looking at ways we could have more experiences.

And with today’s technology, with cellular connectivity, you can get really good internet speeds. And so over the years I tried to get a job I could do from home, and once I had a job I could do from home, then we could have the secondary question of what is home and redefining that. And so we bought an RV, we wanted to travel with our dog and travel all around the country, have a stable environment to do my work. So we hit the road, and the first three years on the road, I had my regular job. I’ve worked remote for a company out of Texas, and then three years into it our hobby side business, I guess had grown to a point that it was unsustainable after hours and for Julie to do it full time. And so we made the leap of faith to both work on it full time. And I left my regular job and now the last three years, we’ve been working full time together on our own RV love

Damian: It sounds like a very deliberate decision as you were looking for work that would allow you to do this. So one of my questions was if it was scary to go full time, but it sounds like you planned from the get go to go into full time RVing?

The Bennetts: It was still scary because anytime you’re making a big life change, especially leaving a, you know, quote, normal unquote life and you know, literally driving off into the sunset to live in a home on wheels. It is still scary. We did do, we’d tend to be planners. We owned our town home. Marc had a job, but he had very deliberately planned to change his job from an office job near our home to a remote job because even though he technically could have done his previous job from home, it was an more traditional, older school company that wasn’t open to that concept.

So the first step was finding a job that he could do remotely. And once he found that, that’s when it really started. But we probably spend a solid nine months planning, you know, researching. The first thing we looked into, Damian was internet connectivity. And you know, let’s not even look at RVs until we know we can get good enough internet to work from the road.

And you know, when we first started, we thought you had to have a satellite, but of course you don’t. Cellular technologies advanced so well. That really answered our first question, but we planned solidly downsized, sold our home, it took about nine months and there was still a lot to learn even after we got on the road, and things that we didn’t expect to have some emotional transition. And there is a lot to learn. It’s a very different lifestyle, but it’s one that we’ve really enjoyed and embraced.

Damian: And I’d love to ask you about the main topic that we got in touch about, which is coronavirus, it’s going on right now. A lot of the countries are in various stages of lockdown for a couple of months now. And I know a lot of people are looking towards RV travel as an alternative as they’re looking at flights that aren’t happening or cruises that might not be happening.

We got in touch to discuss whether RV travel is a good alternative to coronavirus as far as social distancing and a lot of those concerns. So what would your opinion be? Is our being a safe way to travel while social distancing.

The Bennetts: I think it’s fantastic for social distancing and cause it’s like we alluded to early on, it’s your home it’s your home on wheels. Everywhere you go, you have a fully self contained environment. You know, you have your entire kitchen, all of your food, you have your own bed, your own linens. You have the entire history of every item in your RV.

So when you go to traditional types of travel, there’s so much exposure risk. You know, you go get to an airport, there’s touch points everywhere. I’m a lifetime germaphobe and so this, I think I have a lifetime of training to prepare me for this type of situation. But, uh, uh, Julian, I’ve been joking about that.

But you know, when you traditionally travel, there’s so many touch points, whether it’s rental cars or the airplanes, or when you get to a hotel, if you might be in a high rise hotel that has a central HVAC system. So the, all the. Even the air is shared and the elevator’s shared and every pillows, mattresses, everything.

Whereas like I said, in an RV, everything’s controlled and contained, and even when you arrive at a campground, you still don’t even need to have any contact with anybody. You can pull into your RV site. You know, if the camera has an online check-in, you could potentially pull into your site, hook up to utilities for water and electricity, and never have contact with any person.

Damian: So you say that you can check into a lot of these places without contact. Is that an unusual thing? Has that it changed since coronavirus started or was that always…

The Bennetts: It’s definitely what, when this all started to happen back in March, and you know, nobody’s been through this before. This is unprecedented. And there were a lot, there was a lot of confusion for a lot of campgrounds too, because many were being closed down by States. You know, national and state park campgrounds were the first to close being a federal government. but private campgrounds, you know, States and even local counties were issuing orders for them to close. And then some of them had to fight really to be able to be reopened again on the basis that they have year round or seasonal residents or they have full timers like us that are there and have nowhere else to go.

And so they were having to very quickly modify a lot of their protocols to have safe checking for guests. So you could book online or by phone and pay over the phone with your credit card. And then you get your packet is waiting out for you when you arrive or they just tell you what site to pull into and so you don’t, you really don’t need to speak to, you know, once upon a time, we would go into a campground office and we’d go chat to them and they check us in.

But that’s really not necessary because when you arrive at a campground after hours, for example, it’s very common for campgrounds to have after hours checking areas. So if you come in when the office is closed, you can just see what sites are available. Go and get yourself set up and go down and sort out your payment in the morning.

So I think if the system was already there, but probably really is not really being used and now they’re being forced to, and we think this is going to continue for a long time. I think this is changing a lot of things for a lot of people and as guests, we’re just why? Why do we need to go in and check in?

We don’t want to, so I think, you know, everyone’s been forced into it, but it’s not a bad thing because we can, we can very easily make it all happen on both sides. 

Well, something Julie touched on there too, is that when a lot of these RV parks started fighting back with the governments that were trying to shut them down because they’re looking at them as travel and week ending and you know, recreational stuff is that a lot of these campgrounds are essential services.

They provide housing year round for a lot of their guests. And also for people like us that are full time, but they also have stores on site that sell groceries or propane on board. And that’s what’s helped them requalify as essential services. And that’s why you see so many of them open around the country.

And just to add to that too, a lot of medical personnel, people in construction, frontline workers, a lot of traveling doctors, traveling nurses and people that are actually on the front lines helping with this situation.

They need housing and accommodations as well. So being able to keep the campgrounds up is really important.

Damian: It’s great to hear that they’ve been so helpful in adapting some of their procedures to accommodate you as far as the campgrounds go, but then otherwise on the road, how much contact is necessary as you’re moving about?

The Bennetts: Well, very little as you’re moving about, especially if you have an RV like us, we have a…what’s called a Class A RV, which is the ones that look like big buses, and then we tow a vehicle behind it. But we have really large fuel tanks and so we can go multiple States without filling. So the number of times we need to fill our tanks at a gas station or having any contact with anyone is really low.

If we stopped to take a break, we’re still in our RV. If we stopped to get fuel, all I do is get fuel and then keep going. And a lot of it’s pay at the pump and you can disinfect the pumps. So you had gloves and a mask and you had, your sanitizer was really easy. I mean, the only exposure we have with people pretty much is going to the grocery store.

And I think that’s what’s interesting too, is people think of people who travel around. We have other people think of us as transient people that are all out and about doing things. But Julie and I work full time from our RV. So, you know, as I alluded to early in the call, how when we were in the desert, we wouldn’t have known this because our normal life was not disrupted.

We are in our RV working and then we go for walks. But we are not driving to and from work. You know, we’ve a lot of family and friends who have jobs that they continue to commute to work and their exposure rate is far higher than ours is as an RVer. And we’ve even been able to get groceries delivered to our RV at our campsite, so we don’t even have to go out to the store, or if we do just one of us, one of us will go, but even when we stopped for fuel on the way, we don’t have to use public restrooms. We have our own bathroom on board. We don’t have to go in and buy any of the food and get a snack because we have that all on board.

So they’re all huge benefits that I think even people that are thinking about doing road trips instead of cruisers or air travel or train travel. Or bus travel. The great thing about an RV is that you don’t have to go into other places like I’m all sufficient. All the self contained

Damian: Yes. From a social distancing standpoint, it sounds perfect, but are there other considerations that people should take if they’re going to try something like this? As far as safety or extra precautions they might take?

The Bennetts: Well, I think we’re all well trained to know that we need to wash our hands and hand sanitizer, gloves, mask, that kind of thing. But, but you know, I think in terms of planning for a trip, you know, plan and fill up you know, specifically with an RV we’re talking about here, fill up the fridge and your pantry first so that you’re not having to stop multiple times on your trip.

You know, I think the less opportunities you need to go out and do things now, I think when we’re out at RV trips or vacations we’d like to eat out a lot and I would like to go to cafes and restaurants. We like to support the local communities that we visit and we would still like to do that.

But we have to balance that with, well, what feels safe for us. In fact, last night, Damien, we got a pizza take out. We rolled up in the parking lot. We ordered it over the phone. They actually brought it out to our Jeep and then we took it into the garden of the gods park and ate it last night, and that’s the first time we’ve eaten any food that hasn’t been prepared by ourselves in over two months, over two months, and any of that that thought goes through and it’s like, is it going to be okay?

But we felt comfortable with the place. But you know, I think people need to be thinking about that more, you know, how can I avoid as many touch points as possible? Well, and that was actually a factor for us when we were relocating. I mentioned to you earlier, is that we wanted to reduce any potential impact on society by having anything go wrong. You know, if we had a mechanical breakdown or something, that was a concern for us. We didn’t want to have to put additional load or strain on the systems. And Julie’s point with you getting prepped for your trip is just make sure you check over your RV and make sure everything’s in good working order before you hit the road.

If you’re going to, especially if you’re going to go on a longer trip. But I think that’s important to do. You know, check your tire pressure, check your mechanicals, and give a good once-over. Make sure there’s no leaks or anything that’s going to require a service during your trip, because one, it’s an interruption to your enjoyment on your travels, but it also, it’s putting additional strains on the system and additional context as well.

Damian: I think that’s all very helpful for those that are considering RV travel as some sort of alternative for the summer or even in the future. I’d love to just ask for some general travel advice.

The show is about helping people enjoy worry free travel. And I think with your extensive experience…you mentioned six years on the road, full time, all the States, most national parks, and you’re producing a lot of content. So you really have a lot of experience in this, and I bet you can provide some additional tips. maybe it’s first timers or people that have done a little bit, but what would be some essential tips that you can offer?

The Bennetts: Oh, it’s such a huge topic, and that’s why we wrote a book about it, but, I think one of the first things…and we normally would recommend people look into renting if they don’t already own, we often would recommend people looking to renting one before they buy one. In this environment, this changing environment.

There’s been a lot of people that have additional reservations about it because those rentals are more similar to traditional travel in that they’re a shared unit. But you know, if you check with the rental agency and if they have good protocols around safety and then you could probably still consider renting.

But you know, as far as buying, we often recommend, don’t buy it without having done some homework and some research, because there’s a lot of different choices out there, and if you’re doing your homework, it can be a really great fit for you. But if you make a really rash or emotional decision, you might end up being an expensive one.

Because it’s not inexpensive to get into the lifestyle if you’re purchasing, because they do have some depreciation, just like cars, and they’re not like houses in that they don’t appreciate in value, but they’re more like cars in their value depreciation, but they’re also not quite like cars in that they even a brand new units often going to have a few things to work out, little bugs to work out to get it in full operating order.

Damian: on the topic of buying or even renting, do you have brands that you recommend that are generally better than others?

The Bennetts: Well, that’s another really complex topic. And you know, in cars there’s maybe two dozen popular brands. In an RV space, there’s hundreds of over the, over the years. And there’s such a wide variance between the quality of one.

I think one of the biggest pieces of advice we give people is to be clear on your why. Is why you’re going to be getting into RV? If you’re going to be doing a few weekends here and there, you’re not going to invest nearly as heavily as if you’re someone like us who’s going to be living in it full time and you have very different needs if you’re going to spend weeks, months, or years in an RV, then if you’re just going to be spending a few days.

So as far as, when someone asks us about a specific brand, first we’d need to narrow down the type. And even after narrowing down the type, we’d have to ask them a lot of questions about how they plan on using it before we’d make a recommendation even the year model, because over the years, Damian, like certain brands that were around years ago , might be out of business now that, for example, we have a Country Coach, they’ve been out of date with one of the known as one of the best motor home builders ever, but they went out of business in 2009 as many manufacturers did. And so that’s not a brand that’s available today, but it’s still a great quality motorhome. 

Now, on that same topic, some of the brands out there that you know were considered to be good brands back in the day when they went out of business in ’08, ’09 and been bought out by other companies. So even though it’s the same name too, maybe a new person would think, well, okay, that’s a Monaco, that’s a Fleetwood for, I’m using that as an example because that’s a very different company now than what it was 10 or 15 years ago. So it’s, that’s where the brand, the brand conversation is. It’s put this way, it’s a much bigger conversation. That’s why we have a book in an online school because these conversations and these topics can be really complex for people who get into them for, you know, for longterm and are higher and higher investments.

And you can spend as little as $5,000 on RV and we can spend as much as $2 million on an RV. 

Damian: That’s very helpful because I had no idea that there was that many brands, so it really makes it hard to narrow anything

The Bennetts: And also things like some brands will manufacture travel trailers and motorhomes and high-end motorhomes and low end travel trailers. So even though they might technically be the same brand, they’re very different. You cannot compare. This is not apples and apples and it’s what I say, but there are great resources out there.

There are some great guides that you can buy that really do drill down a very deep level of the different types, whether it’s towables, you know, the ones you can tow behind a truck or, which is, by the way, the vast majority of our views on the road are towables or trailers that you tow behind the vehicle.

Probably 85% of all RVs out there are in that 10 or 15% that are motorized. Where in the Class A, which are the bigger ones, that’s the much smaller percentage. You’ll see a lot more people in your Class B’s and your vans or your class C’s, which are typically the ones with the cab over the front driving area and that you’ll often see the rentals out there.

They’re mostly Class C’s and they’re much easier to drive for people because it’s like getting out of a car. It feels more similar to driving more familiar, and that’s probably why you see more of those as rentals, but don’t go a little off track there, but it’s, yeah, it’s with the whole brand thing. 

I think once people start realizing what kind of narrowing down what kind of RV they want, then then you start digging deeper into brands and it also comes down to your budget and how you plan to use it. Cause there’s no point getting an expensive top of the line Class C RV for, if you’ve got four kids and you’re going on family vacations down by the river, you know it’s going to get wrecked.

These things are not built to last unless they have some of the higher end that it designed for longer term or full time living. They’re just not designed for that. And so there are pros and cons to every pros and cons to everything. 

Damian: I’m sure with your experience you have seen a lot of people new to RVing and make mistakes and mishaps. How can you help people that are new to this avoid those?

The Bennetts: Well, that is a great question, definitely lots of homework and research. I think one of the things that people need to realize is driving an RV is not at all like driving a car in the sense that. You really have to think about things like speed. If you’re driving and you’re just putting it into Google maps, where are we going?

You get it to 70 mile an hour road. That’s not a good idea in an RV because the tires are usually not rated for speed. Also, once you load all your gear in it, or your food or your drinks or your family and your pets and your clothes and all the gear and toys you want to take with you, RV weight is really important consideration and you need to be really mindful of that because over 50% of RVs on the road are actually overweight on some measure, whether that’s tire weight, axle weight, or total weight.

And so you need to be, again, educated to be doing this safely. That’s why we really recommend people do their research before they get into a big, but we don’t want to scare people away either, because it can be, once you do a initial level of research, you can do this really safely and confidently and have a lot of enjoyment from it for sure.

And I, you know, spoke, she really was speaking of the speeds, that’s another factor too, is that your fuel economy plummets because these are not like a Tesla or a really fancy car that’s really slipstream through the air. Like these are like driving a loaf of bread down the road sometimes. So they’re not very fuel efficient.

So the faster you drive, the lower your fuel gets. But you know, on that fuel topic, I also want to make the point that. You don’t spend as much on fuel as some people think, especially as full-timers, like Julia and I, you know, six years on the road, people are often surprised that we only put maybe 8,000 miles a year on an RV and that’s traveling to 20 or 30 different States in a year.

And it’s because we don’t have to go there and back. And so when people look at the RVs as being these really gas guzzling expensive vehicles to go traveling, we actually spend less money in fuel than our other families and friends who have jobs that they commute to and from. So we spend a surprisingly low amount on fuel on an annual basis.

And when you say under 60 because when we drive our RV over 60 it’s just that mileage drops like a stone. So we always just take your time getting anywhere we go.

Damian: You mentioned the misconception about the fuel usage and some of the costs there. What other myths are there about our being that you can help dispel?

The Bennetts: Well, there’s a few, I think another one is that it’s…we get this as a really interesting misconception actually, because we see it on both ends of the spectrum. There are some people who have the view of RVers as only the wealthy then that can be doing this because they’re doing it on top of their other regular lifestyle, and it’s a luxury item.

And it doesn’t have to be only the wealthy. And what’s really interesting about that is we also see that on the opposite end of the spectrum is that the only people who go any extensive time in an RV are the people who don’t have any money, don’t have enough money for a regular home.

And so it’s in between. It’s both. And it’s in between. We have people who do get into this lifestyle as a matter of necessity because you can live in this lifestyle less expensively than traditional housing. But we also see people on the far other end of this that have enormous wealth and are doing it just for fun. And I would add to that, that RVing isn’t just for retired people, because once upon a time, I think that’s how people thought of our being is like, well, that’s what your grandparents do.

Now more than ever. You’ve got people from all ages or life stages, buying or renting RVs, and you know, people like us, for example, we can work remotely with a good internet connection and scenic views outside our window. everywhere we go. If you have a family, you can road school your kids. We know solo travelers. We made a lot of solo women travel. There are actually a lot of them over 60 all ages, but amazed and inspired by the number of 60 plus year old women who are just saying, you know what? I always wanted to do this. I’m going to go do it.

We even know some women whose husbands aren’t into it and they’re like, I’d rather stay at home, and they go out and do it anyway without him. And it’s really inspiring, you know, solo travelers, couples, families, and people anywhere from their 20s, uh, all the way up to their 80s. 

We’ve even heard of a couple in their nineties. They may not travel as far these days, but you know, there really is for everyone now and now with social media, there’s so much more awareness about RV with what’s happened with the pandemic. Everyone’s thinking about new ways to travel. People are thinking, well, maybe an RV. And so, I think it’s going to be really interesting to see how many more people do hit the road in an RV.

And that. Yeah. We’re very optimistic about it. We really see that there’s going to be a new awareness of this lifestyle. Then people are going to be seeing how good it can be.

Damian: Finally, do you have some sort of big idea piece of advice that you can share to people that are looking at RV travel?

The Bennetts: Get out there and do it if you’re been thinking about it. And when we meet so many people that say to us, you’re living my dream. And I think it’s so easy for us to put our dreams off waiting until when this happens, if this happens, and I think what we’re all learning from these pandemic is that, you know what…life doesn’t slow down and wait for anybody. It’s a, you’ve got to just make your own decisions about what’s right for you.

If you’ve been putting this decision off, you know, what for? What are you waiting for? This is hands down, going to be the best, the safest way to travel. Get out doors, still practice social distancing.

Still be safe. Still get out and enjoy time with your family and with your loved ones, and see so much to see in this country. I think we’ve been full time, six years and we’ve traveled to all 50 States and we still feel like just scratching the surface. But beyond just travel, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier in the call, is that you might, there might be a lot of new opportunities for people to look at this as a lifestyle, not just a temporary travel in that with this pandemic, there’s been so many companies who’ve been forced into the arena of letting their employees work from home and that there’s, there’s thousands, if not hundreds of, or even millions of people that had never had the opportunity to work from home.

 And now if they like that, and if companies are deciding, well, even when we do come back on board, we’re not going to have as many people come on back into the office because they want social distancing or because they’ve realized they don’t need to have as much real estate that the company’s paying for it. They’d rather have employees from home. This is a huge rebirth and opportunity for people to reevaluate how they live their lives on a longer and larger scale. And I think there’s going to be an increased interest in people working remotely, whether that’s from an RV or from a town that’s not in the big city.

Damian: That’s great advice. After coronavirus winds down, I’m sure there’s some sort of bucket list item that you haven’t been to yet. What’s the next destination?

The Bennetts: Well, you know what’s funny and quite ironic is we last had a home in Colorado before we hit the road. Mark spent his entire life growing up, living here in Colorado until we hit the road. And. It’s one of our favorite States, and we’re back here now, but so often we’re here visiting family in the Denver, Boulder Metro area that we actually haven’t been unexplored in many of the other parts of Colorado, just to, I mean, there’s so much beauty here.

There is, and having lived here most of my life, having a traditional home, most of my trips up into the mountain communities or some of the others more, more rural areas were short trips. They would be a day trip or for skiing, or maybe even a weekend trip for a mountain biking trip. But now with the RV, we can actually plant our RV in a different area and actually really immerse in that community and feel what it’s like to live there.

And so. This is a new opportunity for us to spend extensive time a whole summer here traveling around to different regions of the state that we haven’t done before…as crazy as that is, you know, after all these years, we’ve spent surprisingly little time outside of the Metro area and the time that we have spent here has been a lot of time catching up with family and friends, but because of what’s happening with the pandemic, people who are a bit more gun shy about going out and doing social things, so we may see some family and friends when things lighten up and take precautions, but I just don’t think it’s going to be social a time for us as it has been in the past. 

So it’s been more about, in the past it’s been about coming back to Colorado to see the people, and this probably is going to be for the summer. We get to make it about the places that we can see. So yeah, we’re excited about that. There are some great places here in Colorado that we can stay in RV parks and resorts like we are right now here in Colorado Springs or to be able to camp off grid.

There are some great areas, out of the cities, of course, where we can just camp off grid with solar panels and our lithium batteries in our big tanks and just hang out there in the middle of nature. And, that’s true social isolation, commune with nature.

Damian: I don’t think that’s very uncommon. I think a lot of times it’s what’s in your own backyard that you kind of miss. So I think you have a fine plan there.

The Bennetts: Yes

Damian: Where would you like people to find you online? Where can they find some of your work?

The Bennetts: Sure would love everyone to come over and visit us at RVLove.com and you can sign up and get our email updates and tips on RV life. And, we’re all over social media, so pretty much be tapping RV love. You can get to all of our links from our website. You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and uh, in our books on Amazon and all good bookstores living the RV life.

So pretty much if you type in RVlove will pop up some way, but the website’s always the best place to go.

Damian: Mark and Julie, thank you very much for joining today. It’s been very helpful. A lot of great insights. I appreciate it.

The Bennetts: Thanks for having us 

Travelers are playing the waiting game.

On one hand, much of the United States is still on some sort of shutdown in an effort to slow the spread of covid-19. Because of this, it’s hard to feel comfortable booking any sort of travel for the future.

On the other hand, travel suppliers are offering deals to entice travelers back to booking.

Janice Lintz is a world traveler (139 countries and counting) and is on her way to visiting every country.

She is also a writer and consumer advocate, and she has strong opinions about booking future travel now.

Short answer from Janice: Don’t….yet.

Janice shares the criteria she will be looking for to feel comfortable booking travel again, plus some general travel tips and advice from her many years of experience.

Selected Links from the Episode

• JaniceLintz.com
• Janice Lintz Twitter
• TPG Reader Hall of Fame: The United Island Hopper, a volcano and a last-minute escape from Asia
• Untamed Borders adventure travel

Show Notes & Timestamps

• Janice’s derailed trip story 00:05:21
• On being acknowledged in ThePointsGuy.com Hall of Fame 00:07:25
• Why Janice got started traveling extensively 00:09:58
• Why Janice is not booking anytime soon 00:13:58
• The indicator she is looking for before planning again 00:19:13
• How about refundable travel deals? 00:19:52
• General travel tips including packing 00:24:53
• Common mistakes to avoid 00:26:17
• Travel myths to put to rest 00:28:44

Listen

Transcript

Damian: Janice, thank you very much for joining us today.

Janice: Thank you for having me.

Damian: Janice, can you just share, for those who do not know, give us a little overview of your biography, what you do as far as travel goes, your area of expertise, and tell us a bit of yourself?

Janice: Well, I’m traveling to every country in the world, so I’ve been to 139 UN countries and 194 countries, territories and disputed nations. My goal is to visit every country in the world.

Damian: And what’s your timeframe for that?

Janice: I don’t have a timeframe because, as we’re going to discuss, I have no idea when I’m going to return to travel. I also never wanted to set a timeframe on because I didn’t want to speed around the world, with no judgment of people who are. It isn’t the right style of travel for me.

I want to spend whatever amount of time I think a particular country requires. There are some countries I might spend less time and others where I spent more like Myanmar, where I recently spent three weeks. To me, the country warranted the time. I don’t want to feel like I’m in and out of a nation. I have extreme FOMO, fear of missing out.

For me to go somewhere and miss something, gives me agita. I don’t want to miss things. Putting a deadline on my travels feels stressful. I’m planning to live a long life, so I view this as a life goal. I’m not going for a record. Others accomplished them, and foot planting is not my objective.

I’m too curious. I need to see everything.

Damian: And with that goal, and I’m sure you’ve done your research, does something stand out as what’s going to be the challenging country, which is going to be the one that’s hard to cross off the list?

Janice: You know, it’s interesting. I mean, there are some dangerous or perceived dangerous countries. I’m hoping that by the time I get to them, they will be less risky or not scary. Opportunities also arise. 

So, for example, I went to Iraq with a group of extreme travelers. Untamed Borders organized the adventure, so I felt very comfortable and knew I was in good hands. The group had an incredible fixer. I was also on a trip with some of the most traveled people in the world who I felt knew how to manage situations in case anything happened. Although, I was there a year ago, a year ago October. Although everything seemed and appeared fine, was it? I am not a safety expert, but I didn’t feel unsafe. 

I’ve also been to countries like Somaliland or Eritrea, which had the perception of being dangerous, and I never felt unsafe at any time. Although this is anecdotal evidence, which is not a basis to determine safety, however, it’s hard to know. I don’t know how many countries I have left to visit that other people perceive as dangerous are perilous? I think sometimes the media makes things out of nothing, and sometimes it’s warranted, but it’s hard to know until you’re there.

Damian: You do a lot of writing as a profession, is that correct?

Janice: I haven’t written for a publication recently. I did write one article, but I stopped writing because I am supposed to work on a book that has progressed slowly. It’s tough to travel simultaneously and write if you want to travel in a meaningful way.

When you’re traveling, I’ve seen the bloggers; they’re changing into different adorable outfits. I don’t want my clothes to be the focus of my travel. Also, spending so much time achieving the perfect photo detracts from my trip. I often travel solo, so it’s hard to achieve a great shot since I don’t have a partner who can take the picture. I have to rely on random strangers, which doesn’t always achiever the best photograph. 

I want to travel. So it’s hard to do both at the same time. Taking photos consumes time, and I’d rather spend more time traveling.

Damian: Sounds like you’re talking about them focusing more on the content that they’re trying to produce than on the travel part of the trip.

Janice: Exactly, I want to focus on the travel part of the trip.

Damian: What was the last country that you crossed off the list? What was the last place that you visited for the first time?

Janice: Well, I just came back from a two month trip through that was a circumnavigation of the globe. I started in Hawaii and finished in Singapore. The trip had complicated routing. I flew to Hawaii to take United’s Island hopper, then to the Marshall Islands, all four states of the Federated States of Micronesia, Guam, Saipan, and Palau.

I was supposed to go to the Philippines; however, I canceled because of the volcano eruption. Then, I was supposed to visit Australia, but I canceled before I departed because of the fires. I had to figure out where I can go after Palau because the country only has five direct flights, and the virus was percolating in China, although it wasn’t in other regions.

One of the five places I could catch a direct flight to was Macau, and I nixed that thinking, you know what, I don’t want to push it. I had already been to Korea, so I didn’t want to visit again. I decided I would go to Laos despite there wasn’t a direct flight. I had to fly from Palau back to Guam to Nagoya, Japan, where I spent the day in Bangkok, Thailand, where I spent another day and then to Laos. I traveled around Laos before I flew to Myanmar. 

In Myanmar, I spent three weeks. I was supposed to fly at one point to Singapore but canceled because Singapore’s virus numbers increased. After Myanmar, I decided to go home via India. When I was supposed to catch my flight to India, India banned me from entering the country because I visited Japan on February 8th. 

By this point, Singapore’s numbers went down. A friend recommended I go to Singapore. So I did. When I was in Singapore, President Trump announced the US was closing its borders to Europeans. So I cut my visit to Singapore short and flew home through Germany. That was my last trip.

Damian: That’s a complicated trip. It kind of leads to the next thing I was going to ask. You made ThePointsGuy.com Reader Hall of Fame, and it seems like someone that can make a trip like that, deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Can you comment on that a little bit?

Janice: Well, you know, I adore Brian. I think he and his team, including Jasmine, who previously worked for Million Mile Secrets, published an article about my travels as well, are fantastic. 

For me, the article was a personal accomplishment because I admire Brian and what he’s done with The Points Guy. I felt like they gave me the black belt of points. I thought I was doing well with points and miles, but it’s nice to have my success acknowledged. I’ve made many trips that are equally as complicated as the last one. My forte is traveling well, but smart. I was personally satisfied. I took the article as a huge compliment coming from the team, which I think is exceptionally terrific.

Damian: I agree, they produce a lot of great content. Very helpful.

Janice: Yes, they’re one of the blogs that I admire, and so it was really lovely for me to receive the acknowledgment. The trip was complicated because it changed so many times. However, it helped to have a fantastic group of friends who aided me along the way.

I belong to a WhatsApp group with some incredible people. Some of the people I’ve never met. I’m not sure I would even know them in person. They were so helpful, providing me updates from the countries they’re in and giving me local on the ground tips of where to visit. One person even suggested flying from Myanmar to Kolkata, India. I hadn’t considered flying home via India, but it was a creative way to reposition to get home. That was until the border closed. 

I moderate a small group called Traveling the World with new and old friends who are very accomplished travelers. They were sending me messages to help me along the way. 

Plus, my stash of points made the changes easier. The combination of everything allowed me to keep pivoting.

The staff at United was also excellent. One woman who helped me tremendously was a United representative who retired, and somehow, I had her cell phone number. I don’t even know how I had it. She’s the one that told me to go to the airport when I couldn’t get the United site to work. That was a great tip that I should have known. 

Damian: That’s tapping into an old network. You don’t even remember how you got the number, but…

Janice: If you give me your number and I think you’re knowledgeable, it goes into my master list for each company. You become part of my network when I need a resource at some future point.

Damian: You’re on a call, you’re going to get a text at some point.

Janice: Exactly

Damian: How did you get started traveling so extensively? Was there a trip or something that started this passion for being so thorough in your travels?

Janice: When I was younger, my grandmother was a voracious traveler. She consumed traveling and would sit and devouring tour books. She was older, and she would take trips with various tour companies.

Her brothers were the most incredible travelers, and they would send postcards. Many of them, I never met. I would receive their postcards from places like Nepal, which seemed so distant and far away. 

I also watched a television show called Big Blue Marble; I had pen pals and a stamp collection. I was continually learning about these exotic places.

I also had a mother who loved deals. She was the Queen of the Deal because she did it pre-internet, and things are a lot easier now with the internet.

She once did this deal with Eastern Airlines, which doesn’t exist anymore, where a person could travel 21 days, anywhere Eastern flew so long as the person traveled in one direction. I don’t know how my mother managed to get tickets for a family of five on all these flights, but we went to Jamaica, Bermuda, two places in Mexico: Acapulco, Mexico City, and then Las Vegas.

It was this crazy…can you imagine this? We were just a regular family traveling as if we would jet setters. And this was before airlines had limits and charged for luggage. We had a giant box to add our souvenirs. By the end, it had Mexican sombreros, Jamaican Palm tree leaf hats, and stuffed animals from Circus Circus Hotel, which was then a great, fancy hotel. We would just keep adding things to this giant wardrobe type box. It was crazy.

Damian: It was a souvenir box?

Janice: Yes, we would dump everything in there, check it in, and the airline staff didn’t even bat an eye.

I also did a post-college, backpack trip, the iconic trip of $25 a day. That was when the travel bug bit me. I came home and knew I could travel without my family. Once I realized I could do this, that was when there was no turning back.

The turning point during that trip was when I realized I was eating cheese at home that wasn’t cheese. It was processed stuff that came with plastic around it versus real cheese; the cheese didn’t come out of a green can—the same for ice cream. I had incredible gelato in Italy, not in the flavorless ice cream that came in a half-gallon box. 

I realized I had to see and taste everything myself. I couldn’t rely on other people for their opinions and tastes. I’ve traveled ever since that trip.

However, two and a half years ago, I developed thyroid cancer. After my surgery, I couldn’t speak for five months. I had an immobile vocal cord. At the same time, my house sold after my divorce. I realized that this was the perfect time to up my game and travel extensively. I could take what was a crisis for most people and turn it into the most incredible opportunity.

If I didn’t do it then, I probably would never do it. It’s like now if you don’t do those projects around your home that you are saving for someday, then you will never do them. I decided to seize the moment. And once I started feeling a little better, I made a trial trip to El Salvador to see if I could manage the traveling.

The trip was tough, but I could do it. I decided to take two years to travel as much as I could to epic locations and tick off my “must-see” bucket list. I pretty much visited all of them when I finished Singapore.

Damian: Let’s switch over to the topic that we got in touch about. Originally, I requested that I wanted to speak to those travelers who were thinking about trying to plan trips after the coronaviruses start to wind down. You got in touch offering to take the opposing view.

Can you describe what that opposing view is?

Janice: Yes. I’m somebody who’s visited 139 UN countries or 194 countries, territories, and disputed nations. I traveled for the last two years for pretty much every four to six weeks, give or take. However, I’m not planning any trips now, no matter what the deal is, and I look for the sale. 

I’m somebody who, when a friend said, Oh, you could visit Easter Island because the airline added flights and they’re super cheap, I booked the trip in 10 minutes. Another friend emailed me and said, Did you see the sale to Antarctica? It’s 50% off if you go next month and I am going. I booked it immediately. I’m somebody who loves a deal.

However, now I don’t feel safe, and regardless of the deal, I won’t book a trip. There’s no consistent leadership in this country or globally. There’s pressure on politicians to open up places because people are hurting economically. I get that, and I’m not minimizing the dire financial situation that many people or companies are in, but if we open too soon, I believe there’s going to be another wave of deaths. Instead, we need to bite the bullet and buckle down to ride out the pandemic to get things under control the way New Zealand did. I think otherwise, we’re opening ourselves up for a real problem.

I don’t want to be part of that. We don’t know which countries are going to open up, and then say, whoopsie, we made a mistake and close their borders again. Then what? I could end up stranded. Look at the ships that were floating around and couldn’t dock. What do you do then?

What if you go to a country and you get sick? Medical care in first world countries is less of an issue, although they may not take you, but what if you’re in parts of Africa with dirt roads? It’s not a place I want to get sick. So that’s concerning to me. I need to know will I have the medical care I need, will my medical insurance, and evacuation insurance cover me? 

Just because countries say there are no deaths, doesn’t mean it’s accurate. Are they reporting them? Do the countries’ have access to test people and are they? What is the government doing to stop the virus?

The United States is a disaster. Americans are in for a rude awakening when they find other countries ban Americans from entering them. Americans are unaccustomed to not visiting where they want to go. However, the US is such a mess that governments are no longer going to want Americans entering their country. 

I don’t think even traveling domestically in the US is any better. Which state is handling the virus best? The local governments are all fighting and making side deals.

I think this is a time to buckle down, keep the borders closed to get the issue under control. If we don’t, we’re just going to go from one wave to the next, to the next, to the next.

Damian: Well, it seems like people shouldn’t take your opinion lightly because of two things we’ve talked about your experience; obviously, you’ve been all over the world and done a lot of traveling and all types of travel. But then, as you mentioned, you’re open to those deals. You’d like to find deals, and you’d like to find opportunities. So it certainly says a lot that you don’t have a comfort level for that anytime soon.

Janice: I just want to emphasize that I am not a doctor, and I don’t have secret intelligence. However, I have my ear to the ground, and my friends are the most incredible travelers around the world. I listen to what they have to say. 

That said, some travelers are cowboys and are just insane. There are some of them, I think, who are still traveling there. There’s one or two of them. I’m not sure how, but they still are. However, I’m not willing to take that chance because when I take a risk, it’s a calculated risk. To others, it may appear reckless, but I am not or hope I am not. Issues can still arise, but I try to minimize them. 

I live down the block from the hospital in Brooklyn that is in the media all the time. I see the ambulances regularly. And then I see people right by the hospital walking, not social distancing, as they’re oblivious.

There is a lack of leadership in our country. We don’t have a proper CDC that built an infrastructure from the start. We weren’t prepared when the problem happened.

It’s kind of like what I said with my trip; I was able to pivot so well because I had built in the infrastructure. I figured out the tools I needed in advance. So along the way, if there were problems, I could shift. One of those tools I didn’t mention was I used Global Rescue as my Medical Evacuation and Extraction Service. I communicated with them the whole time about the virus and the eruption to decide if I should go to the Philippines? Their knowledge base was incredible. I would never have access to this information as a mere mortal, but I relied on experts.

Damian: So, with our situation now, what sort of indicator would you be waiting for that would give you the comfort level to look at traveling again?

Janice: A vaccine or medicine to controlling virus-like malaria or a vaccine to prevent it. I don’t need to be an early adopter. I want to see what happens when the doors open and what the waves are?

Damian: Both internationally and domestically as far as The States opening and countries opening?

Janice: Yes. Let other people test them to figure out the problems. I’m not willing to take a chance. I want to see what happens when the doors open domestically and internationally? Let’s see what happens for me to make a more educated decision then.

Damian: Yeah, we’ve discussed on previous shows ways to mitigate if you are going to travel, kind of mitigate your risk. You mentioned travel insurance. I think we’ve talked a little bit about refundable trip plans with airlines and things like that. There are a few steps to take there, but it’s certainly nothing at the level you’re talking about.

Janice: I think that’s where companies made a misstep. In the past, if there was a good deal and the company said refundable, I would have booked and said, you know, whatever, if it doesn’t work, I’ll just cancel. But, when companies start changing the traditional definitions of standard terms, like refundable and cancellation, that is a problem. Businesses are slicing and dicing words that give me pause for concern. The airlines were not refunding refundable trips. DOT stepped in, and that’s not cool.

Some airlines are saying, well, it’s not a cancellation if we reschedule in X hours. Well, not true because it’s a cancellation. If airlines do that, it impacts a person’s trip. If a person misses their tour or hotels, that’s not cool. Credit card insurance or trip cancellation insurance won’t step in as well.

Companies need to go back to using the traditional terms of refundable and cancellation, meaning refundable, meaning you have X hours to refund it or time, and you get your money back. Consumers are more confident booking if they know they can refund or cancel their trip. Then people can book trips and wait and see what is happening with the virus.

I think companies are making a big mistake by letting the lawyers play around with traditional definitions. 

Damian: Instead of cut and dry refunds, credits, or expiring credits or anything in between, all of your money back and nothing. It can be very confusing for the traveler, I think.

Janice: Right? Let’s say you get credit, and then the company goes belly up, then what? Then get in line with the creditors or fight with your insurance company. I didn’t realize that none of the credit cards covered pandemics under trip cancellation insurance; I had no idea. Now I was lucky. I had no issues getting any of the companies to refund my money, so I got lucky. 

I’m also one person, and I wasn’t traveling with a family of five. Imagine not receiving thousands of dollars back from a canceled trip? That is very costly. Is anyone willing to risk paying $10,000 for a vacation they can’t take?

Damian: Yeah, I agree. What do you mention about watching what happens in other places, when they start to ease. Concerns and kind of getting the data from there. I think that makes a lot of sense. Is there another piece of information that would make you change your thoughts on this?

Janice: I would like to see any money that companies accept going into escrow accounts. I would like to see the government requiring it. I know Untamed Borders mentioned this recently where people who are traveling with them shouldn’t worry because the UK requires them to deposit the monies into an escrow account. So, a person who cancels could get a refund. 

That’s nice because then you know that money is secure. I think companies need to start putting money in escrow accounts to ensure creditors can’t get their hands on it if a company does go belly up.

Customers are going to remember how companies handle this situation? People have a good memory and will remember who dealt with the problem well. Hilton is one company that dealt with the issues well. Conrad Singapore canceled my reservation with no problem and gave me a full refund. Hyatt did the same for a reservation I made for my son’s graduation that I canceled. I understand IHG is also fantastic. I think people are going to remember that because when they are taking a risk and maybe booking something that is refundable, they’re going to remember who meant refundable for refundable versus refundable, but not always. There shouldn’t be a footnote by the word refundable.

Damian: Yeah. Don’t make people find loopholes.

Janice: Right. I think that is why some of the people in the frequent flyer world abuse some of the rules. They feel the companies are doing loopholes on their end, so it opens the door for customers to do loopholes. The companies complain about customers exploiting loopholes, but they do the same thing when they change the definition of words and say, refundable doesn’t mean refundable. If you want customers to treat the company right, the company has to treat the customer correctly.

Damian: Agreed. Well, thank you for taking the opposing view here. I think your take on this certainly as somebody with the experience that you have will be very helpful to the listener. So I appreciate it.

Janice: Oh, my pleasure. I hope it was helpful. It’s just a personal opinion.

Damian: But, It’s a viewpoint from someone with certain experience and. And you are someone that wants to go back and travel again. So I think that accounts for a lot.

Janice: Well, thank you.

Damian: We’ll switch away from coronavirus. I really want to finish with some actionable tips and advice. The show is about helping people travel, worry-free, any general essential tips for traveling that you’d like to share?

Janice: Well, I think one is preparation. Even if I’m going to a cold-or warm weather place, I take one outfit of the opposite location. I don’t bring something heavy, but items I can layer. I’m going to a warm-weather place; I pack a lightweight hat, gloves, and a polar fleece to layer. And so that this way, I never caught if there’s a change in temperature.

I do the same with medicine. When I’m traveling, I always bring medicine along for food poisoning. I travel with powdered Pedialyte packets, which saved me more times than anything else. That stuff is excellent. So it’s

Damian: For dehydration.

Janice: Yes, dehydration. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but they’re these like long tubes of powder Pedialyte, and you just dump it into a bottle of water.

Damian: Okay. Yeah.

Janice: The drink rehydrates you. Pedialyte isn’t available in every country, and it’s amazing when you are sick.

I also bring water shoes. So when I’m hiking, a lot of times, I don’t want to ruin my boots. Speedo water shoes make a big difference.

Damian: Any mistakes that you see a lot of travelers make that you can help them avoid?

Janice: One, I always bring multiple credit cards and ATM cards. If a machine eats my card, I have a backup plan. Not every country takes the same credit card. So I always have an Amex, Visa, and a MasterCard with me.

I confirm all flight times, especially the small airlines. The same is true for luggage weight. Airlines change the flights, and unlike an American airline where you get a notice on your app, small airlines don’t seem to notify people the same way. Double-checking is critical. An airline once changed the flight, didn’t inform me, I confirmed the flight and had no idea the time changed, so I was stranded. So check the flight time, even the morning of the flight.

Don’t pack like you’re going on a fashion shoot. No one dresses like Vogue layouts on a safari. I think the most important thing is realizing that the difference between a tourist and a traveler is knowing things are not going to go perfectly. It never does as, even if you have the best travel agent. Things happen. Trips aren’t perfect, and I learned a long time ago to go with the flow and figure out how to make it work rather than letting the problem ruin my entire trip over the aggravation. Fighting about the issue destroys the trip rather than embracing it.

My flight took off in Madagascar without me because the travel agency, through the credit card, made a mistake and used their email address instead of my email address. So when the flight time changed, I didn’t know about it, even though I confirmed with the agency the night before the flight. The whole reason I went to Madagascar was to see the Baobab trees. I now couldn’t because there was no flight, and I was upset.

The next flight available was to Nosy Be. I never heard of it at the time. It turned out to be delightful. There is a certain point where I had to suck it up if I didn’t want to ruin my trip. I was like, okay, whatever. I have no choice. I’m going to go, and I embraced it. I ended up having a marvelous time staying at this beautiful hotel.

The hotel heard what happened, and they went above and beyond for me. At dinner, I had giant shrimp and fantastic massages: $40 for two hours, which was terrific. I swam with sea turtles and saw whales. It was amazing. It was not what I expected, but it was different and extraordinary. I think learning to embrace problems makes my trips so much better.

Damian: That’s great. And how about myths? What do you hear travelers say over and over? Misconceptions that you can help debunk.

Janice: Well, I think places that seem dangerous aren’t if you work with experts as I do. I used an excellent guide in Eritrea, Tekeste, and Somaliland. Everything was fantastic because I had great people on the ground, helping me. 

I’m also a solo woman, so I find hiring a guide is helpful, so that I’m always with someone, but yet I’m traveling by myself. I’m getting their expertise as well, which makes a big difference. I tend to like it if the guide can drive as well, so I have one person rather than a team.

I think traveling for enjoyment versus getting Instagram pictures. I think too many people these days are traveling for Instagram, and they just go from one place to the next to get the photo rather than enjoying it.

Damian: And finally, is there a final big idea, a piece of advice that you’d like to give to the listeners.

Janice: Well, my whole premise is about traveling well, but smart. I always recommend people to pick your destination based on the deal rather than I to want to go to X place. So when I went to Antarctica, I went because Quark was having a 50% off sale. Antarctica was off the table because I thought the trip was going to be too expensive. However, when the opportunity arose, I quickly changed where I would travel rather than saying, Oh, I want to go to this place. 

Then don’t wait, because you never know what’s going to happen like now with the pandemic. There is never the perfect time to travel, so you have to seize the opportunity. Go off the beaten path because it’s going to be cheaper. 

Rather than say, look, I want to go to X place in Paris, maybe go out of the city and figure out alternatives. Sometimes I will hotel hop to get the deal or pick locations based on currency. I use frequent flyer points for my flights. Don’t hoard them for a rainy day, because if you don’t use them, you lose them or they devalue.

I also use discounted gift cards for different hotels but don’t go too heavy into them. Especially now, we don’t know what companies are going to go out of business. So be cautious of that possibility. 

Those are my best tips. My way of traveling is how to travel well but smart.

Damian: That’s great advice. What’s the first destination after this is all done.

Janice: Well, as I mentioned, I’m going to take a wait and see approach. I think it’s too soon to say, but I’m likely to go to the Pacific ocean territories if they let me in the countries. I think those countries are more isolated, so they are less prone to the virus, although they do have a lot of Chinese tourists. The countries shut down much quicker than the US.

And so I’m hoping I can visit them; however, I’m still taking a wait and see approach to see what happens? It’s too soon for me to tell really. But that’s where I’m leaning towards for now.

Damian: And what’s the best place where people can find your work online?

Janice: JaniceLintz.com

Damian: Thank you very much. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. You’ve provided a lot of great information, and I appreciate it. 

Janice: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity and especially to give an opposite viewpoint.

*The transcript was edited for clarity.

In this episode I speak with Jason Epperson from RVMiles.com…and we’re talking about RV travel as a good alternative during the coronavirus situation.

Many travelers who might usually take flights or cruises are looking for something more low key, with social distancing options, and staying a little closer to home.

In this show Jason talks about:

• “Roadschooling” strategies for RVing with kids full time
• Why the National Parks might be very busy this year
• How the “2-2-2” rule helps keep you sane on the road
• Resources for planning
• Common RVer mistakes and how to avoid them
• Why RVing in cities is not impossible

Selected Links from the Episode

• RVMiles.com
• Our Wandering Family
• Campendium.com
• Roadtrippers
• Passport America
• TSD Logistics (diesel savings)
• National Park service passes
• Motor Carrier’s Road Atlas
• Outdoorsy.com
• RV Inspectors

Show Notes & Timestamps

• “Roadschooling” strategies for RVing with kids full time 00:00:44
• How the RV community is handling coronavirus lockdowns 00:03:17
• Is RV travel a good alternative for corona-related concerns? 00:06:29
• Protective measures campgrounds are taking 00:08:12
• How to learn about restrictions in various areas 00:11:03
• Why the National Parks might be very busy this year 00:13:47
• Extra safety precautions the RVers might take 00:14:21
• Top general tips for people new to RV travel 00:17:13
• How the “2-2-2” rule helps keep you sane 00:18:51
• Resources for planning 00:20:24
• Common RVer mistakes and how to avoid them 00:23:57
• The vital offline map that everyone needs 00:25:43
• Myths about RV travel debunked 00:26:19
• RVing in cities is not impossible 00:28:34
• Final advice 00:30:04
• The AIRBnb of the RV world 00:32:50
• Are any brands of RV better than others? 00:33:40
• Why getting an inspection is vital for buyers 00:34:45
• The next “bucket list” destination 00:35:58

Listen

Transcript

Damian: Jason, thank you for joining us today.

Jason: Happy to be here.

Damian: Could you just help the audience understand a little bit about who you are, what you do, and what you’re up to?

Jason: So, I am a full time RVer with my wife and my three kids, and we have been traveling the country for almost four years now. And, we do podcasts, and blogs and YouTube videos about traveling. We have the RVmiles podcast, which talks about our travels and the RV industry.

And we have the See America podcast, which talks about American destinations. And then we have the America’s National Parks podcast, which talks about all the different national parks in the U S, and we’ve been having a real fun time doing it.

Damian: and you mentioned traveling with kids, so you are homeschooling on the road?

Jason: Yeah, we call it road schooling, we’ve taken our life on the road and made it an educational opportunity. So a lot of our travel is influenced by homeschooling, by what we want to teach the kids at that time. So, you know, they do basics everyday math and, and reading and, writing and spelling and all that sort of stuff.

But, when we want to deal with like American history, you know, we can go to all these amazing places in this country and learn about them. We want to deal with geology. We can go into a national park and, and look at rock formations, go to a chat with a park ranger, all that sort of stuff. We did, we spent about six weeks in New Mexico our first year on the road and visited all the Native American sites and basically spent all that time being immersed in native American history, so the kids got to experience that stuff first hand instead of in a book, which was just wonderful.

Damian: I know a lot of people have had the thought of doing something like this full time, and you mentioned it a little bit, but when you made the decision, was there some anxiety around that? Was it a scary decision to make and if so, how did you deal with that?

Jason: Oh, I don’t know. We were so excited at first, part of the biggest challenge for us was the fact that I was still sort of wrapping up some work in Chicago and we had to stay in and around in Chicago and we couldn’t get on the road right away. So we were staying in a campground and I was driving two hours into Chicago every day.

So there was so much happening. There wasn’t really a whole lot of anxiety over it for me. I think maybe the kids had some anxiety. There was a lot of anxiety over selling a bunch of our stuff. And we had to downsize drastically. We had to get rid of a lot of stuff. 

Other than that though, you know, our last day in Chicago, you know, we never, people talk about the violence of Chicago all the time. We never experienced anything remotely violent or dangerous or any crime whatsoever. But the last day when we’re moving into our bus, right outside of our apartment, a guy comes up to us he actually came up to our kids first, which kind of concerned me, and he was telling our kids to go inside and he, then he came up to us and he says, you guys should go inside right now…”I was just robbed at gunpoint”. 

And that was just kind of a sign to us that, you know, it was just kind of time to leave this neighborhood. And just get out and do something else. And, gosh, we’ve been, there have been challenges, certainly like any life. But we’ve loved it,

Damian: That’s amazing timing on that story.

Jason: right?

Damian: Now you’ve been…for the audience, it’s May 13th right now…so we’ve been dealing with coronavirus for several months now. A lot of the country’s locked down. So you’ve been out on the road or in RV lifestyle during all of this. How’s that community handling coronavirus?

Jason: it’s been a real challenge for some, and some have been luckier than others. Basically, what happened…about eight weeks ago now, is that States began to close Campgrounds at least that States and the federal government ran, all the public campgrounds started to close and private campgrounds were the only thing open because this States I’ve been trying to discourage travel.

The idea being if the campgrounds are open, people will want to travel to our state and bring this virus around the country. And there are over a million full time RVers out on the road and not only full time RV owners, there are many more than 1 million people that do what we call “snowbirding”…where they go from the colder climates in the North to The South in the winter, in an RV. 

Even if they have a home or they’re just, you know, out traveling and getting caught in the middle of this. So we were in a campground, that we were scheduled to be at for a week. And, we sort of made the decision pretty quick that we weren’t going to keep moving.

We’re in Arizona where there’s probably a lower chance of a lot of cases, there’s very few people in this County, and we just booked a monthly right at this campground, and we’ve been here for the last two months now and haven’t moved.

And a lot of people have experienced that, but a lot of people were somewhere where they couldn’t book a monthly rate or they needed to get somewhere and some travel restrictions began to be put in place, and that made it difficult for people. There’s 14 day quarantines when you arrive in some States that are required, and there are some counties, it’s all been County by County…there have been some counties that have closed all campgrounds, including private parks entirely.

The state of New Mexico has told all campgrounds that they can only operate at 25% capacity. So some people had to leave for all sorts of incidents like that, and lots of campgrounds closed all their amenities, including bathrooms and laundry. and that can be a challenge for people.

I don’t know that it’s much more of a challenge then people who are having to shelter in place in their own home. But there, there are a few little wrenches that make it a little bit more difficult for an RV. But there, there’s some freedom as well. You know, if you were in a hot spot and, and wanted to get away, or if you own an RV, there are a lot of people that are medical professionals that own an RV, That are staying in their RV so they don’t have to come home to there

Damian: Hmm.

Jason: You know, they might even be staying in their driveway. Right? But they don’t have to bring the virus in their house. So, there are positives and negatives to this time that we’re in right now.

But there have been a lot of challenges for us. Full-timers, at least.

Damian: That leads us to the main topic that we wanted to talk about a little bit…so many travelers are looking at options that they can fill in for a lot of the travels that they aren’t able to take. Whether it’s airline flights, I’ve certainly read a lot about people leaning towards RV or at least thinking about it.

And we wanted to get your opinion about whether it is a good alternative, form of travel during covid-19?

Jason: Yeah. There is huge interest in RVing right now. It was already on the rise before this happened and the sales at dealerships have not slowed down at all, and the campgrounds that have reopened are reporting that they’re getting lots and lots of bookings. People are wanting to travel. They’re realizing that they’re not going to be traveling internationally anytime soon. They may not want to get on an airplane. They don’t want to deal with being close to people in a pressurized cabin, all breathing the same air. They don’t want to get on a cruise ship and they can’t get on a cruise ship anytime soon.

They might not even want to go to a hotel room, so the idea of bringing your accommodations with you is really appealing. You have your own bathroom, your own kitchen, and you can clean it yourself and all that, and you’re self contained. So a lot of people are looking at this as a great possibility.

Four, getting out there and traveling. After this is over, or even now, and people are getting the itch right now because they’ve been cooped up. They want to get out, and they want to go see some things. So, a lot of people are not working and if they have the money and can afford to, they’re thinking, well, I’m going to travel, until my place a business opens back up.

So, there’s a ton of interest right now and it is, it is a great way. So travel, there are changes happening based on the Coronavirus. And I think in every aspect of life where we’re looking at a new normal. And, when you go to a campground now, as opposed to a couple months ago, you’re going to see some different things.

I just participated in a big summit… back to camping summit, which was thousands of campgrounds all getting together to talk about reopening and all the challenges they’re facing. So they’re putting in lots of implementations, like, contact-less check in…o they’re checking people in over the phone.

Closing down their store. Maybe their stores open, but they’ll deliver stuff to you. So if you need firewood or ice and things like that, they might not have it available for you to walk up and get at any time, but you can order it. Our laundry room here has opened up, but they’ve closed every third machine to keep people distance from each other there. Give it specific hours. They have rules for how many people can be in the laundry room at a time.

There’s lots of stuff like that happening at campgrounds themselves. In general, the experience at a campground is about the same and especially as more and more reopened. But the biggest changes people are going to experience if they want to travel right now are going to be at the places you go visit.

So if you’re going to National Parks or you’re going to different attractions around the country. Those all have different ways that they’re reopening. National Parks are slowly reopening and figuring out ways to do it without visitors centers, without shuttle buses and maybe with limits for people getting in.

And, obviously events all around the country are still canceled and probably won’t be returning anytime soon. So going to restaurants can be a challenge. All that sort of stuff that you’re hearing about, across the country is happening, or people are trying to figure out how to approach reopening.

Do restaurants cut their tables in half, you know, half as many tables in the restaurant? Do movie theaters reopen? Do they remove seats and stuff like that? There’s all kinds of stuff that the whole country is figuring out and what’s happening in your local town with that is probably the same thing.

It’s happening elsewhere in the country, but it could be worse. And like I said before, it’s really different County to County. There are a lot of counties, particularly tourist counties, that have challenges that we might not understand.

So for instance, Moab, Utah is a big tourist destination. It’s a resort community town. They call it a gateway community for national parks where people go and they use the hotels and they use the campgrounds and visit the surrounding National Parks around Moab.

Moab has a hospital that has 17 beds. So, that County had shut down, all travel, all visitors had to leave. And they still have some pretty strict restrictions in place and nothing is open there. So you’ll see stuff like that happening in different places that are very, very popular. But our small communities with small medical facilities, the Florida keys being another example.

Damian: So Jason, you mentioned restrictions County by County. Is there some sort of resource that you’re referencing to figure out what’s going on?

Jason: No, it’s actually really hard to figure out specifically what’s going on, in different places other than looking at there are some websites that will tell you what’s going on state by state, but you still need to check. 

What’s going on in different areas. So what we recommend is that you look at campgrounds and accommodations and places you want to visit and give them a call and ask them what’s going on. We look at Campendium.com. It’s a big campground review website as the best place to find open campgrounds, they have done a really good job of making sure to track who’s open and who’s closed. And they have a filter in place so you can filter out the ones that are closed and all that sort of stuff for right now.

And you know, most of those will be opening in the near future, that’s a good place to get some idea of what’s going on, but it’s best to call and find out what’s going on in the local community that you’re looking at going to. We also use lots of Facebook groups, there are lots of local travel groups, so if you’re looking to go to Glacier National Park, if you go to find out Glacier National Park Facebook group. That’s a good place to get some idea of what’s happening on the ground there because you want to learn about, not only, what the restrictions are in that County and that community, okay, but how is that national park, if you want to visit a national park, how’s that national park managing the coronavirus how are they dealing with people entering and exiting parking areas? Are the trailheads open or the picnic areas open, all that sort of stuff. You can generally find out from, from people that I have done it already.

 Damian: Those sound like really good resources. we’ll certainly link to those. And a follow up question on, just contacting other people and trying to maintain some avoidance, you mentioned some great procedures that campgrounds have in place and various parks. What level of contact is really required as you’re moving around the country?

Jason: I think people often get the idea that they’re not going to have to contact people to travel in an RV. Now, certainly if you want to be in your local community and go camp near where you live. That is probably a really good way to get away from people and do some social distancing.

But if you’re doing some cross country travel, you’re definitely going to be going to gas stations. You’re going to be going to grocery stores and you’re going to be doing a lot of the same stuff you were doing at home because if you’re traveling. For a longer period than you can, take the stuff you need with you.

If you’re traveling more than a week or so, you’re just going to have to be doing that stuff and if you want to go visit sites, those sites are going to have different ways that you’re going to have to interact with people or probably just the very fact that there are going to be other people there.

I think we had this idea that this would be a good year to get to some of the busier national parks like Yellowstone, and Yosemite because maybe less people would be traveling. And we’re finding just really over the course of the last week or two from what we’re hearing is that this is going to be a very, very busy American road trip, travel season.

There are going to be a lot of people at these places. It’s not some time to have a national park all to yourself, as I think some people had hoped everybody has the same thought that you had, and they’re all getting out there.

Damian: And for those that might want to give it a try. Do you have other safety considerations or precautions you might recommend that they take

Jason: Well, you know, you can do some of the same stuff that you might consider doing at a gas station at home. If you want to wear it gloves or use hand sanitizer and wash your hands after using the pump and, make sure you’re not doing things like, wearing gloves and then holding your phone while you’re doing it, and then taking the gloves off.

And then when you’re out at the campground, you can wipe down the water that you hook up to and the electrical box with a sanitizing wipe before you use them.

A lot of people do that anyway. They’ll take a little bit, a bowl with some water and bleach in it and, they’ll dip it up and the water faucet that you hooked up to at the campground, to make sure that it’s sanitary because a lot of people, a lot of people use the same hose to hook up to the fresh water at the campground that they might use to clean out their sewer hose. So you see people doing silly things like that. So it’s a good idea to practice on sanitary things like that when you’re traveling anyway. So…

Damian: Yeah…I would hope that last one would be a common sense thing, the hose usage, dividing those a little bit.

Jason: Yeah. And then going to, when you go to the dump station to dump your waste tanks and stuff, the same thing, but wipe everything down. Make sure to wash our hands after. If your RV has an outdoor shower, a lot of them have a little outdoor shower. but that’s a good place to wash your hands. You bring some soap out there, wash your hands after doing the dirty business of dumping your tanks so you don’t have to bring anything into the RV to wash your hands. We do a lot of stuff like that, stuff that we would otherwise do.

You’re going to want to learn about the different ways grocery stores are acting or are dealing with this in different areas that you’ve traveled to. And when you go to the grocery store, that’s going to be your main point of contact, with people. But you can often bring your RV right up to the grocery store and load stuff in right there. We still do the grocery store pickup where you go, you can go to the Walmart app and order from Walmart and yeah, they have it ready for you.

They just load it up for you so you can do those sorts of things and not have to go into the store even while you’re traveling. Those are all good things to do. And then I just try to take this time, I think to go to some of the less famous areas, the less populated areas, the less popular places.

There are so many things to see in this country. So while we’re in a time where we’re trying to stay away from people. Go to some of those places. Don’t, don’t feel like you have to go to the 62 major national parks. You can go to any of the national monument sites, you can go to national forests and, and that sort of stuff.

Damian: I think that’s all great advice for those thinking about tackling something like this for an alternative this summer. Right now, I’d love to shift away from coronavirus a little bit and some general travel advice because you have extensive experience in this, certainly after four years on the road, family travel, you’re doing road schooling, so you certainly have the experience.

I’d love to provide some general RV tips and RV travel tips for the listeners. The show is about worry-free travel, all those little things that get people a little bit anxious. What are some of your essential tips for RV years and maybe specifically for those considering full time.

Jason: Well, my biggest tips for traveling in an RV, are to be flexible and to take it slow, and it’s okay if you want to plan every minute of your trip, but have backup plans, be flexible with the fact that you might not like a campground. 

Something might not be open, you know, if you want to, we call it boondocking…when you stay on public land outside of a campground, when you’re just sort of parked and running off your battery power, you might feel like that area is sketchy or it’s not easy to get your rig into. Be flexible about where you’re going to camp and then just give yourself the time to go to the places that you want to go.

We talked to so many people that have two weeks to travel. You know, they’re taking their two weeks off for the year from their company and they’re trying to book a trip to eight national parks, or you know, they’re going through seven different States and they end up spending all their time driving.

And it does take you quite a, you look at what you look at, the amount it takes you to drive on Google maps, like the suggested time of travel on Google maps, you want to add several hours to that per day for RV travel because you’re just by the very nature of it are going slower. You’re visiting the gas station more often, and it just takes more time and you want to arrive at the campground before it’s dark because nobody likes to pull into a campsite in the night and try to figure all that out.

So we use this thing called the two-two-two rule, which a lot of our viewers use, and some of them use the three, three, three rule.

And so if it’s the three, three, three rule, what it means is you, you only travel every third day and you only travel up to 300 miles and you try to get to the campground by 3:00 PM. 

And, you don’t have to follow a silly rule like that, but make a rule for yourself. How far do I want to travel in a day? How many hours, how many miles? What time do I want to get to my campground by and leave myself some flexibility in case it takes longer, so you can make sure to get there in time to set up and enjoy the campsite and experience the place. 

And then try to stay somewhere for a few days, even if it’s just a stopover on the way to somewhere, find a good stopover that has a few things to do in that community and do them instead of trying to travel 2000 miles, booking one night at a time.

It really gets difficult and it really grates on you after awhile, so that’s sort of the, the top thing I recommend to people, especially if you have kids, you know, kids are there going to want to stop to go to the bathroom or they’re going, they’re going to have a harder time dealing with the amount of travel that you’re doing.

So take it easy and, and don’t try to do everything at once, you’d be much better off spending an entire week…in one national park…than trying to go to five of them over the course of that week, and exploring the place for real. So, that’s sort of my, my top thing.

Some resources for planning your travels…we really like to use roadtrippers.com which is a great way to find destinations along a route. So you can put in your starting point. And you can put in your end point and then you can search like within 30 miles of your route to find different attractions along the way…different sites to visit along the way. Different campgrounds or hotels to stay at.

So we really like it using Roadtrippers for that. But you also can, but in your vehicles, gas mileage, and it can tell you how much your fuel costs are going to be over the course of your road trip.

And that site I talked about earlier, campendium.com,  is a great place to actually find campgrounds along your route. There’s a cool ndiscount club called Passport America, which is great for any campers that are looking for a discount overnight. So, generally going to be up to one to two nights that you can get up to a 50% discount at different campgrounds.

And basically you just go on their website and find which campgrounds in the area you’re traveling to. Have it available and you call them and, and book with your passport America card. And it only costs like 40 bucks a year to be a passport America member, and, that’s a great help, for those real short stops when you’re traveling.

And then for fuel savings, if you have a diesel, a RV, or a diesel truck, there is a diesel fuel savings card called TSD Logistics. And this is a crazy discount that is absolutely free. You basically, they pay and then they take it out of your checking account and it sounds like a scam, but it’s not.

Lots of RVs use it. It’s T S D logistics and diesel fuel…I’m not kidding…ou can save up to a dollar a gallon, it’s just a massive savings. People are saving a ridiculous amount of money, but you have to use the truck pumps right at a truck stop. You have the big ones in the back, which a lot of, if you have a diesel RV, you’re probably using those anyway.

So yeah, those are just a few different things that can help you out figuring out. Most people that are RVing are looking to see the national parks….getting that annual national parks pass is a great help. It’s $80 a year for anyone and it gets your entire carload into any, it’s not just national parks, it’s national parks, national forest, us fish and wildlife service sites, any federal recreation site. The pass gets you into, and you can get.  And, it’s a great savings as opposed to spending $30 a week for our carload at one national park. This is going to get you for the year.

If you’re a senior, you can get that pass for $80 for lifetime. And, it also provides for seniors. Half off of camping, which is a massive savings half off camping at any federal campground there, like 10,000 federal campgrounds out there, and if somebody in your family is disabled, you get basically that same benefit of the senior past absolutely free and it’s any disability at any level.

Those are super convenient and handy to have.

Damian: That’s great. That’s a lot of great tips and great resources that I’ll definitely link to in the show notes, so that’s fantastic. With the new RV years that you see out on the road, I’m sure you see a lot of mistakes. You see a lot of the same things over and over again. How can you help the listener avoid some of those mistakes?

Jason: Well, one of those big mistakes again, is arriving at the campground too late and trying to go too far, so definitely try to avoid that and trying to do too much of course. 

Some of the little mistakes that people make, often involve not really planning their route very well and ended up taking their RV places where they might not want to be taking it, and campgrounds can be very rural and getting to those rural destinations, highway miles are pretty easy, but, getting back to the backwoods, to the rural destinations can be a challenge.

So one of our best tips is to talk to the campground, go to the campgrounds website. Usually its campgrounds website will list the directions to the campground, and they’ll tell you, “Don’t take this route, take this route, don’t take that road, go around this way”. Especially when you get into like national parks there, there may be some roads that you can’t take an RV on and some roads that you can, so you want to know it’s sort of your path because you could be delayed by hours, by going the wrong way.

Damian: So a GPS might tell you one route, but then you should check with the campground if they have a specific way that’s better?

Jason: Yeah. Do not follow the GPS blindly. Absolutely, we actually, we use several resources. We use Google Earth to sort of look at the route. You know, if we’re k curious about a road, we can actually go in and look at that road using the street view, but we’ll also use a paper map.

We have the, it’s called the Motor Carriers Atlas, and basically it’s, the map that truckers use. It shows you all the truck routes in the country, so you can look to see if this is a route that you’re planning is recommended for semi-trucks, then you’re probably pretty good at it.

Now, if you’re driving a real small RV, maybe this might not matter that much to you, but the bigger rigs, it’s important to be careful about mountain passes that don’t recommend you be longer than a certain amount, and, and be careful about some of those washboard back roads.

Damian: And what are some of the common myths and misconceptions about our being that you can help dispel?

Jason: So there are lots of different types of RV, right, and people do this in lots of different ways. So one of the biggest misconceptions that RVers are very rich, and because they must be able to be rich, to be able to afford this big RV and be able to go to all these campgrounds.

And the weird thing about, especially us full timers, people either think we’re, we’re very rich or we’re very poor. Nobody thinks that we’re in the middle as most of us are. And, but my point there is that there are lots of different ways to travel.

So if you want to be somebody, that goes to all of the big resorts and you want to have the pools and the waterslides and the cabanas and all that stuff. You’re going to pay for that.

So you know the idea that our being is cheaper than traditional airplane or road trip travel to hotels… it can be a myth because people think they are going to be saving a lot of money because they’re camping.

It cannot be a myth, if you are willing to camp affordably, and that might mean that you’re not plugged in a campground that you’re going to be at, that might mean that you’re using the water in your water tank. And, You’re going to a state park that doesn’t have the cleanest bath houses and that sort of stuff.

And, if you’re okay with that, then you can save lots and lots of money doing this. Of course, the cost of your RV is going to factor into that as well, that comes with RV ownership or RV rental, there is a massive scale of RVs available for rent, and some of them are going to be way more affordable then and others.

And it’s going to depend on where you go and, that just like, you know, renting a car. So, costs one of the big myths, but you can save money if you do it right. Just like any sort of travel. 

The good news is that, you’re not traveling, you’re not going to, a super cheap hotel room and dealing with, somebody else’s cleaning and all that sort of stuff. deal with your own at that point. 

Another myth is that this life has to be completely laid back and rural and going to the boonies and going out into the woods into the middle of nowhere and not going into cities.

We RV to cities all the time. There are some cities that are better set up for our viewers than others. And you’re generally gonna pay more at a campground near a city. But they’re generally great places to camp near cities. For instance, I’ll give you New Orleans. You can go to New Orleans or three state parks surrounding New Orleans that are $25 a night.

I mean, they’re in New Orleans proper. There’s a great federal campground that’s in a Nashville proper that we stayed at that was $20 a night called Seven Points, so you can actually RV two cities very easily. 

Now that’s a challenge if you’re just in a motorhome, and you don’t have a separate car with you, right. And it’s a big motorhome, you can, if you want to, you park on a campground like this, then it can be a challenge to explore. But a lot of people rent a car when they get to a city, or they bring a car with them. You can tow a car behind your RV, or if you’re. If you’re a truck towing a trailer, then you have a truck…that’s what we do, you’ve got a truck that you can, a hop around a city and visit everything in.

So, yeah, we’ve RVed around Chicago, New Orleans, Mobile, Nashville, Atlanta, lots of different cities that you can go to. You can even RV to New York city if you want. There is a, there’s a campground, right across the river in New Jersey that is looking straight at the New York skyline, so it is possible to, to see all the different sites in America, if you’re flexible, in an RV.

Damian: Is there a final, sort of big idea piece of advice that you can give to people that are either going to try RV for the first time, or maybe they’re just getting into it? Do you have some sort of, big piece of advice you can finish with?

Jason: Yeah. To really do your research. I mean this, if you’re going to buy an RV, that is a massive purchase. Even if you’re buying an older, smaller one, you’re going to be spending a lot of money on an RV. So really take your time to do the research and learn about the different brands. Learn about the issues that people have had with them.

Buying an RV it’s not like buying an automobile. It’s much more like buying a house. You’re going to have the same problems. A house has not the same problems your new Honda civic has, you know, your Honda civic, if you have an issue with it, you take it to a dealer and it’s fixed within a day and it’s under warranty and it’s pretty easy.

And you very rarely have issues with it within those first several years of ownership. Almost every new RV has some issues with it. Just like every new house, it has some things that need to be fixed and, you know, weren’t hooked up properly, weren’t run properly.

That happens in RV. And if you look at it like that, knowing that there are going to be some challenges and knowing that if you’re somebody that is willing to do a little bit of the work to deal with some of that stuff because it can be really challenging to get your RV in for service. It can take several weeks at a dealership. There are mobile technicians out there, but that is the biggest problem that RVers have on the road is dealing with maintenance and service.

So, I just want to caution anybody that’s looking at it and to get into this lifestyle if you’re somebody that can’t manage minor maintenance and if you’re worried that your rig is going to be perfect when you buy it. 

Don’t spend thousands and thousands of dollars, and if you don’t know, dip your toes in or into an RV, and that’s a good way to find the different types of RVs that might be right for you anyway.

If you rent one, you can sort of learn about, one and see if it’s the type that’s right for you, and it might not be, you might want bigger, you might want smaller, there are a lot, lots of different options out there for RV. 

So yeah, it can be really confusing to people that, you know, might think that they want one thing, but actually end up wanting another, and a lot of people end up selling their rig for something different within the first two years and they take a huge hit and depreciation. So try to avoid that by renting, especially if you’re only going to be traveling short term there’s no reason to go buy an RV if you’re going to take two weeks of travel right now. 

You can do that and rent an RV and figure it out. And if you’re worried about driving one, you can actually rent an RV, in the local area of the campground that you’re going to, that owner will put it in the campground for you and you just stay on it.

So you can go and there’s places just like, there’s Airbnb for booking people’s apartments, you can go on a website called outdoorsy.com, and you can, there’s another one called RVshare.com, and you can rent people’s RVs there are personal RVs, but they also have they have insurance and everything that like AIRbnb has.

So it’s, it’s a great option for everybody. And a lot of those people set it up right in the campground for you that might teach you how to use everything on it. I think that’s probably a better thing than going out and buying. Normally, I recommend that people go to RV shows to learn about RVs before buying them. You know, tour all the rigs at an RV show that RV shows aren’t going to be coming back for a while. So I don’t know that I have a solution for that yet. But you can also walk around the dealer lots and all that sort of stuff.

Damian: Now on the topic of reliability and just issues with the new RV, are there brands that tend to be more reliable than others that you’d like to recommend?

Jason: You know, here’s the thing is that almost every manufacturer in the RV space is selling at every price point. . And there’s stuff at the cheaper price points that is manufactured with less quality. And people get hung up on brands. And really in the RV space, you do get what you pay for to some extent.

Now, there are some brands that are top of the line, like Airstream and Newmar, Tiffin those, but those are real luxury brands, and you’re going to pay a pretty penny for them. If you have the money to buy one of those luxury brands, great. you’re going to be happy. But if you don’t, really, one of the best things you can do, again, every one of these rigs they are built sort of like on an automobile is, but not really. it is generally a little bit more custom. They don’t put anywhere near as many units out. It’s very difficult to look at one brand to another. 

So the best thing that you can do when you buy a new RV is to get an independent inspection on it. There are lots of RV inspectors out there across the country. There’s a big association of them. these independent RV inspectors all across the country. You spend a couple hundred dollars on one, just like you’d have in home inspection when you’re buying a house from somebody and they’re going to show all the different defects because you could have an RV from a very good brand that’s going to have some problems with it, and you want to make sure that you don’t.  

RVs depreciate very quickly and a lot of new RVs like I said, they do have some problems coming off the line, and sometimes those problems have been solved by the first owner, and a lot of people will recommend buying recently used rigs for that reason.

Now a lot of use rigs are also traded in because they have so many problems with them. So there, there is a reliability issue in the industry right now…and that’s a challenge for a lot of people. But if you know that going into it, you know that you might have, your furnace might have to go in for repair or something like that.

Then you can deal with it, but inspections are really a great way to go.

Damian: And once coronavirus is done, or at least people feel like moving about again, what is your next bucket list destination? What’s the place that’s maybe something that you haven’t been to before? 

Jason: We’re trying so hard to figure that out. What we want to do you know, we have traveled extensively. Between the Southwest, the Midwest, and the Southeast. And we have done very little of the Northeast and the Northwest. And of course, those are two of the biggest coronavirus hotspots.

So we really, we, our intention for later this year was to be in New England for the late summer and early fall. And I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon. You know, now we’re looking at things I recommended earlier, less popular destinations, if you want to talk about things that are on our bucket list, like where we dream of going, we do dream of going to the Pacific Northwest and visiting Olympic national park and getting all the way up to Maine and, and going to Acadia national park, and we’d love to take journey to Alaska. A lot of RVers, every summer we’ll take the journey up to Alaska and drive back and you can either drive up through Canada or you can go to Oregon and Washington and you can drive them a giant RV onto a ferry and they’ll take you right up into Alaska and then you can drive around and Alaska and Alaska is just, it looks so beautiful. We’d love to get there someday.

Damian: Those are great goals that you have, Jason, and you’ve provided a lot of great tips, great resources that we’ll definitely link to and I really appreciate it. What’s the best place that people can find you online? Where would you like to send them?

Jason: RV miles.com is our website, you can find the RV miles podcast there and the America’s national parks and see America podcast there. You can find those also on a podcast app, and then our personal travels. We’re all over social media as well…Our Wandering Family, that’s sort of our personal travel social media, separate from, from the business stuff.

Damian: That’s fantastic. Thank you very much for joining.

Jason: Thank you for having me.